Random Liberal Quotes...
"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction." -- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002
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Freedom
Guest
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 Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: liberalism |
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I put it in here cause i dont know where to put it.
Correct me im wrong please.
.: Liberalism
Liberalism is a political tradition that holds liberty as its primary political value. Of course, all terms in the US have been changed, American Liberalism (or new liberalism) is different from Classical liberalism formed in the Western Age of Enlightenment.
But overall, Liberalism seeks to create a society where freedom of thought and speech for individuals. A market economy with free private enterprise. Limits on Government power with interests in protecting the rights of individuals. A government system that is transparent.
New liberalism also emphasizes a degree of government provided welfare to ensure access to medical care for everyone and benefits for the unemployed. Housing for the homeless and so on. |
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bush08
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'll move it to a proper forum.
But I think you're missing the whole point. Liberalism YES means individual liberties and minimizing government for individual freedoms.
As far as medical care for everyone and feeding the homeless and whatnot you're talking about increasing government.
It sounds good, but it's not free. So you are talking about government expansion to TAKE money from some to give to others.
This is called redistributiong wealth, and is against fundamentals of true liberalism.
Communism gave everyone free healthcare and cradle to grave entitlements and this is the democrats goal today. All well intentioned it killed over 100 MILLION people according to UN estimates.
The path to hell is paved with good intentions...It sounds good to feed the homeless and give to the poor , but the democrats don't GIVE. They TAKE from the working man and give it to the non-worker. |
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Freedom
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:04 am Post subject: |
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I understand that , and i myself do not particularly support the welfare part of liberalism. Not because it take from the working man and gives to those who dont work but because it promotes unemployment. Why go to work when you can get free money just by sitting at home.
I have not been on welfare or benefits but could someone tell me how much you generally get?
But also, i just dont quite understand why there are these sides. These rivals. Can't we negotitate some form of government or political method which includes the better halves of each policy.
Or is Utopia condemned to storybooks? |
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bush08
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Freedom wrote: |
Or is Utopia condemned to storybooks? |
I think that's it. I believe that the government should basically help provide a level playing field with minimal intervention.
Minimal intervention being the FDA, Border Patrol, justice system...etc.
The whole entitlement of retirement, health care, education, is ridiculous and all three of them are dismal and corrupt programs. It would seem whenever government oversteps its streamlined minimalist role and starts taking from Peter to pay Paul we all get screwed.
And to be honest at the end of the day Paul ( the receiver ) is screwed over in the long run more than Peter. It creates dependence and de emphasizes self worth.
All the great things in the past century that makes America and indeed the world great from screenplays to amazing inventions and medical advancements comes from American ingenuity and the freedom of minimalist government to carry it out.
As far as a Utopia, by the America being designed to get out of peoples personal lives and allow more freedoms than anywhere else on Earth it's as close to a utopia as is really feasible as a long term goal. |
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AcDiaz
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: Not entirely accurate |
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I just came across this post and I think there's some gross inaccuracies that have to be cleared up immediately.
Bush08...Communism DID give free healthcare to everyone, you're right about that. But the mission of Communism was to make the poor and huddled masses LOVE the Communists because then they could stay in power forever. THAT was THEIR goal with that. They had ulterior motives that didn't benefit the people.
That is NOT what Democrats are trying to do.
Democrats in America today are trying to follow the lead of other countries who are making such systems work to the benefit of the people.
Japan, for instance, offers free and reduced healthcare to ALL of its citizens. There's nothing wrong with that and it WORKS in Japan.
All the Democrats are saying is that Health care is expensive.
It's A LOT cheaper to insure as many people as we possibly can, especially children, than it is to cover the costs of disabilities, debts and deaths that occur because people can't afford health care.
Where I live, we have a program called CHIP. Maybe you have heard of it where you live. It helps families without insurance get it for their kids at a highly reduced cost so we don't have any uninsured children in our state.
The state of Washington offers free dental checkups for kids in their school system. And I think that's fantastic!
Take a look at your paycheck next time and figure out how much money you're paying to the government to cover costs for medicare, medicaid, social security, etc.
We already cover benefits for the unemployed...why not give people a reason TO BE employed.
When I think about this issue I think about people like me...I'm on my parents insurance until I turn 23...after that I have to pray that I can afford the premiums to have health insurance...and vision insurance...and dental insurance...and prescription benefits...MY LORD!!! NO WONDER PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD HEALTH INSURANCE!!!
Maybe you get insurance through your work and they pay your premiums.
We're NOT all THAT lucky.
Some of us have great jobs...at companies that only have three employees and can't afford to pay the premiums on benefits.
It's hard to take a look at what happens to other people and truly see what's happening.
I'll bet if we took a vote, more people like you would show up the poll and people like me would get screwed.
Honestly, I believe in the idea of giving people free healthcare.
It's a way to give people MORE freedom.
Freedom from debt. Freedom from having to worry all the time about whether or not they can afford birth control so they don't get pregnant.
You're suggesting that we continue to leave our poor and huddled masses poor and huddled and continuously ill and dying.
I'll admit that I don't like everything that I have to pay out on my taxes because I don't benefit from any of it.
I'll bet you'd be a little upset if people like me got together and said we want to take away ALL social security benefits because we're never going to benefit from it so why should the older generations get money from us???
I met this guy, Steve Glickman, who developed Vote Sizing and he thinks that the people who will be most affected by a decision should be the ones whose votes count the most.
So if free insurance isn't going to change your life, you shouldn't get as much of a say as the single father whose three children need health insurance.
I think that's a terrific idea.
Why should you get more say than the people whose lives will change as a result of this?
You talk about liberalism like it's going out of style.
Liberals are supposed to want people to be free.
Part of freedom is not always having to decide whether you pay for a prescription or this month's groceries...and so many people in America have to make that decision.
For a true liberal...a TRUE democrat...that single thought of someone choosing between groceries and insulin is enough to make you cry yourself to sleep.
Because you don't know what that's like. Because there's nothing you can do for that person right now. Because you don't know how many more people are out there every day making the same decision.
The government should intervene to help citizens, bush08...not to hurt them. Not to take their freedoms. To give them MORE freedom.
That's where guys like Steve Glickman with ideas like Vote Sizing come into the picture.
That's where ideas like free health insurance come into the picture.
And these ideas are perfect specimens of what LIBERALISM has always strived to achieve in America.
The right to TRUE freedom. The right to TRUE equality. The right to a LIFE WORTH LIVING.
I could never be a politician because I care too much about people and nobody wants to listen to someone who cares so much about people anymore.
I really hope that changes someday.
For now, I'm just a writer and middle class american since birth...who thinks that we all deserve to be healthy and worry free...at least when it comes to our health and the health of our children. |
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bush08
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Not entirely accurate |
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| AcDiaz wrote: | I just came across this post and I think there's some gross inaccuracies that have to be cleared up immediately.
Bush08...Communism DID give free healthcare to everyone, you're right about that. But the mission of Communism was to make the poor and huddled masses LOVE the Communists because then they could stay in power forever. THAT was THEIR goal with that. They had ulterior motives that didn't benefit the people.
That is NOT what Democrats are trying to do.
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No read Karl Marx. This was the goal, the idiot masses that believed it would work because it sounded like a good idea and by UN estimates Communism actually wound up killing 100 million civilians.
Next time you goto a democratic convention or rally please take heed to the Che' shirts in the audience. Like the ACLU? was founded by communist party carrying ( literally ) activist whom the main founder wrote "Liberty Under the Soviets" about how great Stalin was.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
Democrats in America today are trying to follow the lead of other countries who are making such systems work to the benefit of the people.
Japan, for instance, offers free and reduced healthcare to ALL of its citizens. There's nothing wrong with that and it WORKS in Japan.
All the Democrats are saying is that Health care is expensive.
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Maybe it works in Japan, Norway, and other countries.
However it's not great in Canada and the UK. It's not an end all solution and they don't have near the medical breakthroughs that we have in the free market United States.
All these cures, advances in proceedures, etc....coming out of Canada, Eh? Please... It comes from American free markets.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
It's A LOT cheaper to insure as many people as we possibly can, especially children, than it is to cover the costs of disabilities, debts and deaths that occur because people can't afford health care.
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Yeah you're going to save money on health care by paying for health care, seems right up there with college grants will bring down tuition costs, because that really worked out. Hey maybe if we pay more money in taxes to congress they'll reduce spending! You're onto something. People CAN afford health care, I cut a check every 2 months. How do I afford it? It's called WORK.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
Where I live, we have a program called CHIP. Maybe you have heard of it where you live. It helps families without insurance get it for their kids at a highly reduced cost so we don't have any uninsured children in our state.
The state of Washington offers free dental checkups for kids in their school system. And I think that's fantastic!
Take a look at your paycheck next time and figure out how much money you're paying to the government to cover costs for medicare, medicaid, social security, etc.
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Here you go, reduce the taxes and these outrageous programs and get off the backs of hard working Americans and then they'll have the money for healthcare.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
We already cover benefits for the unemployed...why not give people a reason TO BE employed.
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By covering the unemployed you're just giving an incentive to be...unemployed. Sigh:roll:
| AcDiaz wrote: |
When I think about this issue I think about people like me...I'm on my parents insurance until I turn 23...after that I have to pray that I can afford the premiums to have health insurance...and vision insurance...and dental insurance...and prescription benefits...MY LORD!!! NO WONDER PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD HEALTH INSURANCE!!!
Maybe you get insurance through your work and they pay your premiums.
We're NOT all THAT lucky.
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Oh my god how horrific that you're going to have to get a job and pay for your own health care. Unbelievable. I work and pay for my insurance.
You want me to work and pay for my insurance and yours
| AcDiaz wrote: |
Some of us have great jobs...at companies that only have three employees and can't afford to pay the premiums on benefits.
It's hard to take a look at what happens to other people and truly see what's happening.
I'll bet if we took a vote, more people like you would show up the poll and people like me would get screwed.
Honestly, I believe in the idea of giving people free healthcare.
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Yeah those awful people that work and pay the bills and take care of themselves would vote for people to be accountable for themselves. Evil vile people like me that don't feel they should pay for able bodied hippies without jobs.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
It's a way to give people MORE freedom.
Freedom from debt. Freedom from having to worry all the time about whether or not they can afford birth control so they don't get pregnant.
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By getting them dependent on the federal government? Free birth control so you don't get unwanted pregnancies?! Gee could you think of any other possible way to avoid getting pregnant?!
They're all spontaniously getting pregnant are they? Because these evil mean Republicans won't give up there hard earned money to pay for girls that want to have sex but don't want to pay for birth control. WOW! How about personal accountability?
| AcDiaz wrote: |
You're suggesting that we continue to leave our poor and huddled masses poor and huddled and continuously ill and dying.
I'll admit that I don't like everything that I have to pay out on my taxes because I don't benefit from any of it.
I'll bet you'd be a little upset if people like me got together and said we want to take away ALL social security benefits because we're never going to benefit from it so why should the older generations get money from us???
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Poor and huddled masses? Please if you are able bodied in America and work, yes WORK you can support yourself and yes even afford health care.
If you're OK with paying into the quasi-communist mantra then donate your money. But you don't want that you want laws to take it out of other peoples paychecks redistributing wealth to as you see fit.
Yes take away social security. People should plan for retirement, and be encouraged to do so. Families should take care of their elderly.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
I met this guy, Steve Glickman, who developed Vote Sizing and he thinks that the people who will be most affected by a decision should be the ones whose votes count the most.
So if free insurance isn't going to change your life, you shouldn't get as much of a say as the single father whose three children need health insurance.
I think that's a terrific idea.
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Horrible idea, and it's a horrible idea to be a single father. That father should be encouraged to not be single and think of his children while providing for him. You want the government to make it easy for bad decisions and make it easier to be a single father or mother presumably.
Easier and OK to have teenage sex because the government will be there for ya. Yippie!
| AcDiaz wrote: |
Why should you get more say than the people whose lives will change as a result of this?
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Because I'm footing the bill! Why? Wow amazing. I work 60 hours a week, why should I have more because I worked harder?! I take responsibility for myself and work hard and pay taxes/insurance. I'm just a rat bastard.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
You talk about liberalism like it's going out of style.
Liberals are supposed to want people to be free.
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Supposed to but they're now massively trying to get into peoples lives with huge government expansion.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
Part of freedom is not always having to decide whether you pay for a prescription or this month's groceries...and so many people in America have to make that decision.
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Cry me a river...I worked minimum wage ( yup evil me ) living on my own when it was $4.25 an hour. I had to choose between eating on a couple of occasions. Guess you never had to do this, but in the end I worked harder and smarter and got a better job. Others I knew were on GR ( welfare ) and lived more comfortable than me and didn't work.
The point is by government getting involved to ABLE BODIED people to make their lives 'easier' it oppresses those people and makes it easier to not lift themselves up and easier to make poor choices.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
For a true liberal...a TRUE democrat...that single thought of someone choosing between groceries and insulin is enough to make you cry yourself to sleep.
Because you don't know what that's like. Because there's nothing you can do for that person right now. Because you don't know how many more people are out there every day making the same decision.
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I do know poverty and unlike you liberals I don't cry about the people as I goto sleep at night I DO something about it. People should be allowed to help themselves.
| AcDiaz wrote: |
The government should intervene to help citizens, bush08...not to hurt them. Not to take their freedoms. To give them MORE freedom.
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More government equates to more freedom? Wow.
War is Peace
| AcDiaz wrote: |
That's where guys like Steve Glickman with ideas like Vote Sizing come into the picture.
That's where ideas like free health insurance come into the picture.
And these ideas are perfect specimens of what LIBERALISM has always strived to achieve in America.
The right to TRUE freedom. The right to TRUE equality. The right to a LIFE WORTH LIVING.
I could never be a politician because I care too much about people and nobody wants to listen to someone who cares so much about people anymore.
I really hope that changes someday.
For now, I'm just a writer and middle class american since birth...who thinks that we all deserve to be healthy and worry free...at least when it comes to our health and the health of our children. |
Yes we all deserve the opportunity to help ourselves and help those who CAN'T help themselves. You're idea of CAN'T is apparently everyone without healthcare which isn't true. Or children WITH able bodied parent(s).
Sure it's the feel good police liberals that want to feel good.
Health care for all, but you don't want to pay for it you want hard working Americans to pay. You going around with a donation plate? Don't think so.
Once you 'solve' health care then all Americans deserve free homes, then jobs right?
It's a slippery slope disturbing. Americans should be allowed to help themselves and to be encourage to 'do the right thing'. |
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Freedom
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: Random unrelated quote |
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A random unrelated quote, that i didnt know where to put:
| Quote: | | If 'Con' is the opposite of 'pro', then congress is the opposite of progress |
I felt this was quite funny.. maybe you might not . here it is anyway. deal with it |
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